The Les Paul Forum, the go-to place on the Internet for vintage LP discussion, has banned its users from posting to the site Fretted Americana's YouTube videos featuringPhil X playing vintage Gibson Les Paul models.

On January 18, 2010, forum member "Bluesforstevie" began the following thread:"WTF WTF WTF????" (Who Thinks Fender?) with the following plea:

"What's goin' on people? Can't I at least get an explanation of why my threads are being torpedoed?????"

Rev. Willie VK immediately responded:

"Before this one gets nuked too, I'll try to explain it to you:

"Posting FA/PhilX videos all the time ends up being a massive marketing campaign for FA, for free. Brilliant strategy on FA's part for sure - the PhilX videos are so much fun that they are getting posted and passed around everywhere! And deservedly so. BUT at the LPF it became too much to have 'free FA ads' being posted all the time and the 'leniency/policy' has changed."

WizardMCD jumps in:

"My vote is that being alerted on LPF to some pretty amazing vintage guitars being played the way I like to play them, in YouTube videos, is a great reason to come back here now and then. I've always appreciated the FA videos. They're not a forum dealer though, and it is not unheard of for a forum dealer participant here to police threads for anything close to violating a rule. I think, never underestimate the money angle. Why is something happening? Usually money is the reason.

"So, to be clear, if we see a Phil X FA video we like, we are not to post it on LPF?"

A few pages later (this has become a very lively and intense discussion) i45 throws in his two cents:

"I agree that it does need to be discussed. When these first appeared it was my first thought that this was spam. The one thing TW mentions that Phil X posting one himself is spam is not something I would not see any different than the others posted here by other members. I don't think Phil is a direct employee [he is not] or would get a cut of any sale so he wouldn't benefit from spam. I don't know this for a fact so if I'm wrong please correct me. I saw the one he posted the other day and seemed to be in the spirit of just another guy here that got gassed by a guitar and was excited. I'm guessing here but i don't think Phil has owned a whole lot of guitars like this and it's just as much of a treat to him. Anyway, yes it does have advertising attached so it maybe could be a problem...

"I really think these videos hit right at the heart of what seems to have been missing in the vintage world for the last two years. There have been many other bits of vintage info over the years we have referenced many times that if we really wanted to get picky can easily been costrued as spam. My vote is that this library of clips is so extroardinary in that there is just nothing like it out there it should get a pass and be considered reference material much like The Gruhn Book or Clay's http://home.provide.net/~cfh/index.html site. As long as we have the right to comment on and point out the ridiculousness of the prices attached to the FA advertisement segment of the vids I think it's an even playing field in that respect.

"I do love participating, learning, and visiting with friends I've made here at The Les Paul Forum. I feel like I've also tried to stay sensitive to all Forum rules and guidelines. I'd like to cast my vote for what it's worth that theses videos may be exceptional to the spirit of the spam rules here due to the overwhelming positive influence on the moral of the vintage guitar hobby and all those involved."

Tom Guitar ups the ante, throwing twelve cents into the pot:

"It's an interesting conundrum, it is.

"On the one hand, being in the advertising business myself, let me first commend FA for a brilliant series of ads. Those clips are any advertisers wet dream. They stand on their own, lots of people want to see them, they add value to the FA brand, and they have value on their own, unrelated to FA.

"Every advertiser on the planet today is trying to do exactly that. Create great content that people want to see, share, and talk about. They are all over YouTube, mostly not as successfully as these, but they are there. The eTrade babies come to mind. I would bet that Phil's videos are linked from dozens of hobbyist sites and show up on Facebook walls and personal pages all over the web.

"Why? Simply because there is information in them not found elsewhere, and they are presented by a real showman and a great player. Who, BTW, I would probably never had heard of if not for these vids, so there is a lot of value to Phil X as well.

"And from that perspective, they are a valuable addition to the LPF. To amplify what Kerry says, in some respects they are what this place is all about, or at least has become. It is more than a discussion board, it is a repository of all things vintage. That's a good thing.

"So, why might they be inappropriate here? Well, simply because they are, after all, ads. They are ads for a shop that does not advertise on the LPF. The LPF is supported by advertising dollars and membership fees. Without them, there is no LPF. So from that perspective, they are inappropriate. "The bottom line though is, that no matter how valuable the content, Phil's vids are ads. It doesn't matter that somebody thinks the prices are unrealistic, or <1% of us might actually think about buying a particular guitar in them. They are still ads and this site is clearly delineated between the ad areas and the user-generated content areas. That's part of what makes it work so well most of the time.

"So what are possible solutions?

"1) I don't know what the mix is of ad dollars to membership fees, but one solution might be to ban all ads and raise the membership fees. Personally, I don't favor that. I find the advertising on the site valuable. I have bought stuff from many of them and will continue to do so. I would glady pay more for access, but I don't want to lose the advertisers.

"2) Get FA to be an LPF advertiser. Then he could post as many as he wants in the Dealers Blvd. Given that some real time and money is being spent on them, I would think becoming a sponser here wouldn't be that much of a stretch. I could be wrong. I have no idea of the rates. "There are probably other solutions that I am of thinking of right now. But the basic issue is not one that is unique to the LPF. It is occurring all over the web in slightly different ways. The ease of incorporating other peoples content (and ads) into web pages is playing havoc with intellectual property rights, revenue streams, and ethics all over the place. This is just one example that affects us and the site we love.

"TW said, 'let's not get bent, let's discuss,' so that's my 12 cents."

Suffice it to say, Fretted Americana has never directly posted any of its videos to the LP Forum nor asked straw-men to do so on our behalf. We've been very fortunate that the videos, featuring Phil X, have become such hits. Yes, the guitars are great and Phil X amazing but without the enthusiastic reception of what has grown to a total 4,000,000 new and returning viewers of Fretted Americana's YouTube channel the videos would be lost in the ozone.

As virtually everyone on the LP Forum declares that the price of the guitars featured in the videos (no prices stated at any time, just vital stats) are way beyond their ability to buy them, the "ads" are not really advertisements then, are they? If you deliberately market Rolls Royces to people who drive Honda Civics you are one stupid advertiser, no matter how much that Civic owner wishes they could own a Silver Cloud.

We're not the brightest candles in the chandelier but we're not complete dolts, either. The point of the videos was to spread the word and info about vintage guitars in general; we knew perfectly well that most, if not all, YouTube viewers would not be able to afford them.

They are, quite simply, videos to promote the world of vintage guitars. If we wished to advertise with the aim of actually selling the featured instruments, we could find much more effective venues to reach and capture our desired client demographic. Are we altruists? No. But while spreading the good word about vintage guitars is, indeed, good for our business, it is good for ALL dealers of vintage guitars. If a Les Paul Forum advertiser was, indeed, the instigator of the ban, they have cut off their nose to spite their face.

Should the above not be enough to convince the dubious, we declare, unequivocally, that we have never sold a single guitar as a result of our videos appearing on the Les Paul Forum.

But we do love all the attention for these great LPs, and the kind words from all Les Paul Forum participants. We thank each and every member who took the time to express their thoughts. The Les Paul Forum may have dimmed a bit with the deletion of our YouTube videos but it remains and will continue to be the brightest spot on the Internet for LP enthusiasts.